Transcript: CNN’s State of the Union
March 2, 2025

Jake Tapper: Madam Secretary, it’s been a whirlwind few weeks since you were confirmed as President Trump’s secretary of education.

Secretary of Education Marjorie Taylor Greene: It sure has, Jake. But I’m enjoying it. And I’ve appreciated the opportunity to start educating the American people about the danger that space lasers pose to our schools.

Tapper: As you know, many were surprised when you were nominated for the post—and that you were even interested in it. Any insight on that?

Greene: Truthfully, Jake, it’s a role that used to be pretty dull. Even back when Obama was pushing the Communist Core, it was mostly about teachers, testing, and standards. Yawn. But the past four years taught me that the secretary of education actually has a lot of power to punish enemies, reward friends, and ignore the law. And that’s a job description that spoke to me.

Tapper: In his first term, President Trump’s secretary of education was Betsy DeVos. What lessons do you take from her tenure?

Greene: Secretary DeVos was a dutiful Reagan Republican who played by the book. She followed the rules to restore due process to Title IX. She respected legislative directives and Congressional inquiries. And she got savaged for it. Lesson learned. If that’s the deal, I figure I might as well earn the hate.

Tapper: You’ve said you think the Biden administration showed another way to do the job?

Greene: Yeah, and full credit to Biden’s Secretary of Education Miguel Cardona. I mean—wow! He just opened our eyes to new possibilities.

Tapper: Can you elaborate?

Greene: I’m happy to. Cardona taught us that the secretary possesses a massive slush fund, the power to ignore the courts and stonewall Congress, and tools to punish enemies. My team refers to all this as “the Cardona precedent.”

Tapper: That’s some strong stuff. You say, for instance, that the department possesses a “slush fund.” What makes you say that?

Greene: Jake, the federal government holds this trillion-dollar portfolio of student loans. Before Biden, this was all handled in a pretty hands-off fashion, like a bank. But Cardona said he gets to decide who has to repay loans and who doesn’t. Even though the courts kept shooting his schemes down, Cardona just kept handing money out—giving away close to $200 billion to their base! Trust me, President Trump likes to take care of his own. Now that our eyes are open, we’re not going to miss a chance like that.

Tapper: Interesting. What will this mean for your tenure?

Greene: Well, it’s only been a month, so we’re still working on the details. But I’ve got some smart lawyers asking how we might levy a surcharge on borrowers who use public money to go to expensive colleges or get graduate degrees, and then use those dollars to fund President Trump’s American Academy. That’s on top of the money President Trump will be squeezing out of those fat college endowments. And our lawyers think there’s wording in the law that’ll let us extend $20,000 in forgivable student “loans” to our base—working-class high school graduates—so long as they’re subscribing to instructional podcasts and videos, like Joe Rogan or Tucker Carlson.

Tapper: You mentioned punishing enemies. Can you say more?

Greene: Sure, Jake. You probably recall that in 2021 Cardona’s department teamed up with the National School Boards Association to sic the FBI on conservative parents who raised concerns about mask mandates, school closures, and woke curricula. Well, as you can imagine, when I told President Trump about all this, he immediately saw the opportunity to go after the real domestic terrorists: college professors, campus protesters, and communists. So, stay tuned.

Tapper: You say that you’ve seen opportunities to ignore the law and stonewall Congress. It sounds like you’re spoiling for a fight. True?

Greene: Not at all, Jake. I’m just following the “precedent” that’s been established. Look, Cardona showed you don’t really need to follow the law; there’s just not much that Congress can do about it. Look at FAFSA. Back in 2020, Congress gave the department three years to simplify a form. Well, Cardona was so busy forgiving loans that he couldn’t be bothered to get it done. And guess what? Congress couldn’t do much about it. He refused to share documents with them, rejected calls for accountability, obstructed  subpoenas, and stiff-armed oversight. If the Democrats who took over the House come after us, I’m just planning to dust off the Cardona playbook. So, I say bring it on!

Tapper: Anything else you’ve picked up from Secretary Cardona?

Greene: How much time do you have? The research geeks at my department have all these statistics they put out. Boring, right? Well, when Cardona was in charge, he used the department’s data releases to push the administration’s talking points and attack Republican governors. That makes things a whole lot spicier. I’m looking forward to doing the same. And we’re planning to partner in all this with Truth Social and X to make sure we’re educating the public on what the numbers mean for President Trump’s agenda.

Tapper: So even statistics can be political?

Greene: That’s not all, Jake. Last summer, not 24 hours after President Trump was shot and election-poaching White House occupant Joe Biden called for unity, Cardona attacked Republicans in a taxpayer-funded department communication. Two can play at this game. The American people can expect to see a lot of me in their inbox! Last fall, Cardona’s taxpayer-funded “Back to School” tour spent three of its four days doing partisan talking points during the election homestretch in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Well, President Trump and I like hardball politics, too. I just didn’t know how much of it you could get away with in this role. Now I do.

Tapper: Well, Madam Secretary, I appreciate you taking the time to visit with us. Good luck in your new role.

Greene: Believe me, I’m looking forward to it.

Frederick Hess is an executive editor of Education Next and the author of the blog “Old School with Rick Hess.”